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Monday, December 12, 2005

Mehlis 2 report available for download

Download a PDF format here.

Comments:
Some thoughts while I am doing a quick read of this report:

28. saddik is now acknowledged to no longer be regarded as a credible witness.

30. The commission recieved 'credible information' that Hussam's family were threatened?? Credible like Saddikk was credible? Or credible like Hussam is credible? It seems Mehlish believes the story he wants to believe, just like the Bush admin only believed intel that built the war case, no matter how flimsy.

It is interesting that Mehlis is not just letting the Husam testimony go (and saying we don't need it) and this indicates to me that they need his testimony.

31. 'New witnesses with potentially critical information'--Excellent, so these people have had nearly a year now to fine-tune their stories and now are ready to come out. Please, this game is being played on both sides--Lebanon and Syria. I wonder if my Lebanese friends at least admit that it is more than likely at least one of these new witnesses is created and coached by people wishing to implicate Syria. Or will they claim bribery is impossible and they must only speak the truth?

74-87: Yes the Syrian officials were very slow in their reponse. This can be interpreted as intentionally misleading, or we can remember that everything in Syria is slow. It took me 3 months to update my ID card. Or maybe the Syrians wanted to move carefully to protect their rights. In my own biased Syrian view, I will give the benifit of the doubt to the Syrian athorities. In Mehlis' biased view, I think he would choose the former.

The rest of the report is nothing new from the previous report.

So I still see no concrete evidence implicating Syria. I see many potentially contaminated witnesses and the way Mehlis has written his report makes it seem as if he knows Syria has done it and he is just searching for evidence to prove his already formed conclusion.

And so the investigation will go on, and Syria (and Lebanon for that matter) will continue to be in turmoil (economic or political) while the world awaits the 'final' Mehlis report. But it is looking to me that Mehlis will never have any concrete proof implicating Syria. It seems his best is witness testimony and wishful thinking.

And that is obviously a problem because I think the Hariri supporters and the US neocons have no problem resting their case on that, while Syrias will demand concrete evidence. So somebody is going to feel cheated in the end, if the end is ever reached in this sad saga.

Condolences to the Lebanese for Tueni 's murder. No reason or excuse can ever justify the killing of innocent people. What a despicable act.
 
I don't know how you come up with the above conclusions my dear friend, but either you are under the influence or desperately trying to find evidence to discredit Mehlis. I trust it is the second.

Hussam's family was threatened, and the poor under threat, left Lebanon and chose to obey his Syrian master! His wife has been questionned in Lebanon, and you should read up on what she said, it is pretty damning.

New evidence, yes there is new evidence that comes out 50 years after a crime. I don't see what is odd in that!

Syrian non cooperation. i love the comparaison with the ID card. I guess I don't need to respond to this joke :-)

The rest of the report is nothing new? Do you suffer from selective memory? Read the report and account for all the evidence, but please don't make highly biased and restitute selective info that suits your agenda!

And now the Syrians have killed another of our leaders!
 
Engineering change-- I will respond to you after I actually finish reading the report, which you might want to do before casting judgments!
 
Kais, I meant my comments to be initial thoughts while reading the report. I read it all, quickly yes, but read every sentence. So my comment was not an analysis or final judgment, or thought over much but my point of view as a Syrian reading the report, looking for concrete evidence.

I did not see anything really concrete that links Syria to this murder, I am sorry. I almost wish there was, because I know if Mehlis continues like this there will be problems for Syria because the Syrian regime will not accept this flimsy 'evidence'.

Anonymous, is it already a foregone conclusion that Syria murdered Tueni? Is it not possible somebody else did it to hurt Syria on the eve of the UN SC meeting? And what in the world is wrong with Lebanese security people--it seems this man should have been protected like the US President yet he was killed the first day back?

By Mehlis' argument, which was basically that since Syria had such a close tab on Hariri and since they were in control of Syria at the time of the murder then logically Syria must have done it. Let me be a devil's advocate for a minute, but if we apply that same reasoning to Tueni 's murder....well where does that lead you?

Maybe Syria did it somehow--but it is not a foregone conclusion. The CIA could be up to something for all we know. (that is the film Syriana talking, which I just saw today--and reccomend to everyone)
 
Engineering change, weren't you the idiot who came with 'breaking news' on Josh's blog saying that Mehlis' mother died on the Golan ? Get yourself a new brain or bug off.


"Yes the Syrian officials were very slow in their reponse. This can be interpreted as intentionally misleading, or we can remember that everything in Syria is slow. It took me 3 months to update my ID card."

Even better. You think the Syrian government will treat this case like your demand for an ID card? You must have important friends man.
 
Thanks Vox your sarcasm is biting as usual. And again out of place though. And thanks for not addressing the thrust of my discussion and questions.

I'm the one that said that in Syria the rumor going around was that Mehlis' mother was israeli--without backing this rumor. I commented how incredible it was that information could be so skewed and different in two sides of a story.

YOU are the idiot that called me 'falling for baathi propaganda' when I was merely making a point about skewed information.

Vox you really don't handle civilized discussion well. And you always miss the point of what I say. I am making these points because like it or not, this is what many Syrians will be thinking. I was hoping to get Lebanese reactions to a more typical Syrian reaction.

I got yours. You're the person that reacts by throwing his hands in the air and cursing. So thanks for the comment, I was hoping for something more constructive but thats fine.
 
My dear EG, as a supporter of the elephants, I am not looking for civilized discussions with donkeys. Get lost or die tryin'.
 
I apologize for this Kais. It was not my intention to indirectly turn your discussion section into an insult-flinging fest.
 
Yes you Baathis have a lot to apologize for. Apology refused.
 
Again you have that problem with reading skills. I apologized to Kais, not you Vox. If Kais wants to refuse my apology thats fine.

And I have already told you that I am not a Baathist. Please find a new insult since I have zero affiliation with the Baath party. You really are not too bright are you Vox?
 
EG, you're a self-ignoring Baathist. Like Moubayad, Dardari and all those neo-Baathis out there. The shell is different but you're the same than the classical Baathis. You're a conspiracy theorist, a guy who has zero understanding of what is going out around him.

Bashar will not remain the president of Syria for a long, long time. Because he just has to point Israel with his finger and you'll begin to bark 'zionists! zionists' and support your precious leader from any regime change. That's why you're a Baathist. You deserve this dictatorship.
 
Good Vox--better job with the insults. You are paritally right, I readily admit to have conspiracy theorist tendencies. Sure I will throw them out every so often.

But zero understanding what is going on around me huh? Well I understand that the last time the US brought about a regime change it caused about 30,000 - 100,000 iraqi lives to be lost, and a viscious insurgency that sows fear in the hearts of everyday Iraqis so that they do no dare walk in the street anymore.

I also know Lebanon is coming out of a brutal sectarian civil war. And I also know Syria has been the most stable country in the middle east for the past 20 years. While the Lebanese were killing eachother, Syrians at the very least had safety if not economic prosperity.

So do you think I support Bashar because I am some neo-baathist? Or maybe just maybe I see what happened in Lebanon, what is happening in Iraq --and I see that chaos potentially spreading through Syria like wildfire if there is no Bashar. Thats what causes me to support the unfortunate brutal dictatorship the Syrian regime is. I don't want to see my people killed. There are no viable alternatives in Syria today that is reality. I will take Syrian security and dictatorship over a Lebanese style civil war any day of the week.

Meanwhile you are one the most biased people I have seen. You are so blinded because the of the unjust Syrian prescence in Lebanon. But I had nothing to do with that so don't blame me for it--I have already condemned it.

You don't give a crap about the Syrian people thats why you are so eager to do away with Bashar, But I don't blame you for caring about the best interests of the Lebanese people, so don't blame me if I put the interests of my own Syrian people ahead of everything else.

Get a clue, look past your burning bias and understand why myself and others like me are forced to defend Bashar. I think that is so much better than falling into tiresome, overused rhetoric of calling someone a "donkey" or a "self-ignoring baathist".
 
Engineering Change - I'll grant you that you are may not be a Baathist. But are you trying to get yourself recruited by them?

I won't make any more comments, but please read the full report, and look at the conclusions.

-New evidence
-New witnesses
-Houssam taher Houssam manipulated by the Syrians
-All documents relating to Lebanon have been burned by the Syrians

And yes, there is every reason to believe that the Syrian government is behind the killing of Anti-Syrian politicians in Lebanon. Everyone knew he was on the Syrian black list for assassination. Bashar said 2 days ago that if the Mehlis report was damning, it would destabilize the whole region. I guess he has decided to apply his threats!
 
EG - "While the Lebanese were killing eachother, Syrians at the very least had safety if not economic prosperity." Did it ever occur to you that Lebanese were killing each other because of Syria? Because Syria was producing sectarian violence?

get a grip on yourself. You can defend the Syrian people all you want, but you do not need to be one of Bashar's pets...
 
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 
You fail to mention that Syria had a big role in igniting the civil war, both in Lebanon and in Iraq. And the insurgency in Iraq is nothing else than the remanent of the previous regime. Yes, the regime change was worth it. I don't want your stability if it means dictatorship and I am willing to pay the price of liberty.

Don't mistake Syria's stability for what it is not. It is not a success, it's a mask that is hiding the sectarian reality of Syria. The longer the Syrian regime lasts, the more violent the outcome will be. It's like a pressure cooker. It can sustain higher pressure but when it blows, it blows. You think that stability is good because you didn't see the consequences of it yet.
 
Yes it did occur to me Syria and other foreign forces did cause some of the violence in Lebanon. Thats part of point though--Syria kept internal security all these years AND quite importantly also didn't allow foreign fingers to wreck havoc like Lebanese leaders failed to do. And I bet many Lebanese also played prominent roles in spreading the violence--the Lebanese leaders for sure are not scott-free by any matter. But my insight into the Lebanon civil war is quite weak, so I will not comment much on this.

Hussam says he was manipulated by the Lebanese--so its you and your opinion with that guy. Personally I think he is lying to everyone. New witnesses can be manipulated and created very easily. I am just giving you a biased Syria look.

All documents were burned--if true--is damning sure. But it is not a smoking gun by any means. Killing Hariri is not the only reason documents would be burned.

See I half wish Mehlis had great evidence, where we can all agree Syria did it but he just doesn't. Unless he is holding back for the final report, what he has now is going to provoke a lot of ill feelings in Syria. Thats what I am not happy about, I want both our countries to move on economically and no more killings in Lebanon. This way provokes so much more ill will between our countries.

Syria for sure is the prime suspect with Tueni's murder. The timing could be coincidental like Ammar said, but all I am saying is there is no proof at all. I understand initially pointing a finger at Syria, but when you look at it anyone with a problem with Tueni or Syria could have done it to take advantage of the situation.

And where is the outrage at the Lebanese security forces for failing to prevent this? Tueni must have, whould have been the most guarded man in Beirut if he was numero uno on Bashar's hit list. But I have only seen accusations of Syria. If it was Syria, I may be ashamed, but I am also shocked at the efficiency of Syrian security forces which I previously took to be bungling and inept.
 
Quoting an anon:

"Tueni never said shiites are sheep. This is the biggest distortions of facts ever propagated by the extremist sectarian al manar tv.

This is how it happened:
Tueni was having a conference in french at the Université Saint-Joseph in Beirut when one student asked for his opinion about the Hizbullah claims that there were 1.6 million people in their demonstration (8 of March).
His reply was that we shouldn't look at demonstrations in terms of sheer numbers, because here we're talking about people and not sheep.
Next day al manar headlines: Tueni called shiites sheep!!!!
Can anyone be more dishonest than this?"
 
EG - Tueni was not "the most guarded man in Beirut". In fact he arrived just a day or two before his assassination. He only had one car that was bullet proof, and 2 security officers with him.

he did not want to come back, but several people said that he should come back, and there was very strong pressure for him to come back!

To have a bomb of this magnitude kill Tueni, implicates Syria whether you like it or not. Everyone knows that Syrian moukhabarat are still in Lebanon. We see them on the streets, we know them even though they hold shops, and try to dissimulate their origins.

The greater majority of Syrians never cared for the pains of the Lebanese people that was inflicted by the Syrian military and security services. You can understand then that the greater majority of people in Lebanon now despise everything that has to do with Syria, and that it won't take just fence mending to reconciliate the two! It will take apologies from the Syrian government, recognition of the crimes committed in Lebanon during the occupation, recognition of the crimes committed after the withdrawal, compensation for the billions of dollars stolen from Lebanon, recognition of human rights abuses, recognition of the 100's of Lebanese in Syrian jails.

I think that's enough for now, although the list is not exhaustive!
 
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