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Tuesday, January 17, 2006

Hizbullah and the Lebanese flag

Thousands of supporters of Hizbullah and other pro-Syrian parties, many inconsequential, organized a demonstration outside the US embassy in Awkar today. What is striking about this demonstration is how it copied the March 14 look and feel. Lebanese flags were everywhere, and protesters even painted their faces with the colors of the flag.

To many, this constitutes a robbery of national symbols. The flag is being prostituted to serve essentially unpatriotic goals.

Yet the irony of the situation should not escape us. Hizbullah, criticized for being an Iranian militia acting against national interests, is in humiliating self-defense mode. The party has never been a fan of the Lebanese republic's national symbols. Its ultimate goal being an Islamic Shia state ruled by clerics, it has, in the past, refused to even wrap the coffins of its martyrs in a Lebanese flag.

During the last years of the Israeli occupation, when more Lebanese became sympathetic to their fight against the occupation in the south and the Bekaa, their yellow flag with the gun and God's name in the center often reminded Lebanese that Hizbullah's fight was selfishly and exclusively theirs. Even when Future Television and Tele Liban would refer to the resistance as a "national resistance", Hizbullah's al-Manar never did, and more frequently than not, it became difficult to accept that resistance into the national fold when it constantly renounced national symbols.

Lebanese support for the resistance was, at times of alleged great national unity, nothing more than spite directed at arrogant Israel. It was never a unanimous call for arms, and it certainly never equated Lebanese honor with those arms (as Hizbullah's secretary general, Hassan Nasrallah, did yesterday).

In fact, Hizbullah was always alone in its choice to fight. Whether this was fortunate or unfortunate is beside the point. The majority of the Lebanese after the civil war—and this includes the Shia-- were tired of violence, period. Hizbullah's short-lived fortune came after Israel stupidly bombed Lebanese infrastructure, creating enough spite to temporarily legitimize the resistance's shaky national raison d'etre. And if it weren't for Syria, one could argue, Lebanon would have resurrected the armistice treaty with Israel a long time ago.

Today Hizbullah has been adding a hypocritical dimension to its political identity. The sea of Lebanese flags that confronted alleged American interference was a desperate attempt to portray the increasingly isolated party as a national party with legitimate rights. Yet I'm afraid Hizbullah has already lost the fight for Lebanese hearts and minds. Hariri's assassination ended all illusions regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Arab regime's sincerity and competence in waging such a struggle. No amount of cedars painted on noses will convince people that Lebanon should return being Syria's card against Israel, let alone join Iran's folly. One could even predict that Hizbullah's demise will be at the hands of that fake Lebanese nationalism it flaunts, which is eating away at the party's yellow Islamist project.

Hizbullah's affront today lies in hypocritical calls for no foreign interference in domestic affairs, while pledging allegiance to Iran and Syria, and praising terrorists in Iraq, who massacre Shias on a daily basis.

Many bloggers and commentators have rightly pointed out Hizbullah's shameful disregard for Syria's murders in Lebanon. Nasrallah yesterday even challenged the March 14 parties to present him with evidence of Syrian complicity in the murder of Hariri and other anti-Syrian figures. Nasrallah is not known for being stupid, but he chooses to play dumb at the expense of the country he claims to want to protect from foreigners. His shameful defense of Syria is not unlike Ahmadinejad's pathetic denial of the Holocaust. But why go that far. Next time you hear Hizbullah doubting Syria's role in terrorizing Lebanon, point to a poster of one their martyrs and ask: what is your proof that Israel killed him?


(Photos: AFP)

Comments:
very interesting last question. I never thought of it that way.
 
Kais, your post makes what one would expect to be obvious, clear ,self evident and logical statements . Unfortunately it seems that HA and its allies think otherwise. I would have expected them to be ashamed of taking such shameful indefensible stands where they know that they are portraying themselves as what they are not. Maybe the best defense is a strong offense!!!!

I just want to remind your readers that many of us had expected this to happen as a result of the misguided efforts that invited HA to participate in the cabinet in the first place. Let me emphasize again, that it made no sense, to drive Syrian officials and troops out of the country and then turn around and replace them by their strongest agents. The solution to this tragedy is rather simple: The Lebanese Government is duty bound to protect the sovereignty and independence of the country. That goal cannot be accomplished by a government many members of which do not share this basic principle. HA did the PM and his other allies a favour when they refused to attend cabinet meetings. The government should NOT compromise or even enter into discussions with HA but should politely ask them to join the ranks of the opposition. I submit that the weaker is the government response to the HA challenge then the stronger does HA become.

This might be the last opportunity that we have to at least lay the groundwork for a secular, democratic and secular republic. If we allow HA to snatch away this opportunity then I am afraid that it would be decades , if ever again, that another such opportunity will offer itself. Make no mistake about it the current Lebanese challenge is the most crucial that we have ever faced. This is no ordinary crisis,
it is an existential one.
 
It's so funny you wrote this, and I'm glad you did, as I was thinking of addressing the same issue: the paradox of using the Lebanese flag and pledging allegiance to Iran and the murderous regime in Syria.

It's the same type of failed appropriation as the Syrian regime's attempt at cloning the March 14 movement in Syria. You can't combine that with a totalitarian agenda!

Who on March 14 was pledging allegiance to America!? The only thing present on March 14 was Lebanon. The only thing absent here is Lebanon! Waving Lebanese flags doesn't substitute for that.
 
The only thing worth noticing is the pathetic and violent intervention of Zaher Khatib.
No to America yes to Ahmadenajede and Bachar.
I could still understand Bachar but what does Ahmadnejede has to do with Zaher Khatib?
Another shady character and close friend to our beloved Emile.
 
I've really had enough of the Hezbollah, SSNP,Palestinian militia, Islamist crap, and I think most others in my immediate circle have as well.

These protests Hezbollah is staging are only further dividing the country.

As I've noted many times in the past, I never supported the muarada. I supported the Syrian departure and the Karami collapse, but I never supported Michel Daher, Ghazi Aridi, et al trying to maneuver around the Hariri assassination for their personal political gain. I went to the street on March 14 to make sure Syria was gone for good. What made me worried was March 8.

Hezbollah does not realize that the rest of Lebanon (and I'm not talking about sects here, but political parties and people on the street - including those of us from Hezbollah controlled regions) is allying against them and their allies.

There is no sympathy left...

(Obviously, I write this in high dudgeon, but in all seriousness, if they don't back down, the consequences for Lebanon are grave).
 
The hour is grave. Not sure what to think.

I do however have a very important question that I think should be asked of the Hezb NOW, not later. It is important in its own right and could make a very strong political point, if hammered by papers and pols in Lebanon.

Should Israel attack Iran's nukes, will you, Hezbollah, fire at Israel? Yes or no.
 
Josey,
Unfortunately I suspect that your expected answer; an affirmative one; is the correct one. Why else were they created, financed and nurtured? Lebanon is a place of convenience for them. They were created to fight Israel and obey the Iranian clergys' interpretation of the Qoran.
It is for the rest of society to marginalize them. They will not marginalize themselves. Would we ever do it though?
 
I wonder what would HA say if somebody burned an Iranian flag at the next demonstration.
 
Yes Ghassan, but popular pressure might dissuade them.

It is very difficult for them to say "yes" now. People (and the gvmnt ?) would recoil at the cost of Israeli retaliation on Leb. Plus it would label their arms "Iranian".

And if they say NO (good for us), they also need to be held to it, when and if.

I think an attack on Iran is a vey real nearby possibility. Even the Hezb threatening, ahead of time, could force Israel to attack Lebanon at the same time as Iran.

Either way who wants that in Leb, even among the Shia?

BTW, this is the kind of stuff one can use to pressure and change politics, instead of the usual " we can't take Hezbo's arms by force", so we do nothing.
 
But many Lebanese Maronites have openly been gleeful at the prospect of an Israeli strike on the Islamic Republic of Iran. I think Iran is absolutely entitled to possess peaceful civilian nuclear technology. Iran has given so much of its own wealth to the Lebanese people, especially its poor Shiite masses. I don't think the Maronites should be inciting the "West" to attack Iran. It would be the height of ingratitude.
 
One month ago, I wrote:

can somebody ask HA to stop using the Lebanese flag? I feel insulted when I see HA people making hate speech whil waving my flag . Can't they use their yellow flag? I mean, if they feel compelled to use a flag, they can take the flag of another country like Iran, Palestine, Syria or the Vatican. Whatever. They shouldn't associate the Lebanese flag with their murderous ideology. People have died for Lebanon's independence. I don't think that foreign agents should use our country's symbol while trying bring their real masters back. I mean the Baath uses the flag of the mythological 'Arab nation'. Can't HA follow their example?
 
To the stupid anon above:

First of all the 'Maronites' owe nothing to the tyrannic government of Iran. Iran has supported the Syrian occuption in Lebanon, tried to engineer an Islamic revolution here, is sending weapons to a fanatical party called Hezbollah and is using this fifth column as an outpost for its nuclear problems.

"I think Iran is absolutely entitled to possess peaceful civilian nuclear technology"

Peaceful? What are you, a retard?
 
Iran has legitimate nuclear energy needs. Many developed nations are also looking into using more nuclear technology in the future. Iran's population will reach 80 million people by 2010. Their energy needs can be met by using nuclear power. Iran's leadership was elected into power last year. There was no bloody revolution involved. Of course, the Maronites hate Iran. One of their militias kidnapped and probably brutally murdered four Iranian diplomats in Lebanon. Iran has given hundreds of millions of dollars to impoverished communities in Lebanon. Show some gratitude. Iran and Lebanon share a deep and profound relationship that cannot be broken by Phalangist fanatics.
 
To Anon, you miss the point.

It's not about Maronites, Iran or nukes, it is about your OWN ASS.

1)If Lebanon is caught in the middle of this, it's another war with you in the middle.


2) If Iran gets nukes and decides to nuke Israel (as ex-prez Rafsanjani has openly talked about it and the current nut), do you think your sorry ass and Hezbo's ass in Lebanon will be spared nuclear radiation??

And that's if Iran doesn't miss, cuz if they do, your sorry ass will get more than radiation.

Now go back to worrying about the marorites and yelling "Death to Amrika", cuz that's the real threat to your health and future.
 
4 diplomats? Are you kidding me? There were undercover military agents.
 
"Iran has given hundreds of millions of dollars to impoverished communities"

There's no 's' to communities. Explain me again why the Maronites should be gratefule because I kind of missed it.

You're not only arrogan, you're stupid too.
 
Dunno mate, at least Hizbullah was opposed to the so-called "Taef agreement" imposed at gunpoint on Lebanon in 1989 by King Fahd, Sheikh Ibn Baz and Gen. Hafiz al-Asad...

For the record, the Grand Mufti of Lebanon, Rafic al-Hariri and Fuad Saniura strongly supported the Taef agreement...

And, unlike the pro-Saudi Murabitoon and other PLO-trained/Saudi-financed Lebanese terrorists and their Druze allies, Hizbullah's militants NEVER BURNED THE LEBANESE FLAG or massacred Christian civilians for that matter, wich kind of makes a BIG difference, if you're secular that is....
 
Well, with all its faults, Hezbullah and their turbaned Imam corner are MUCH more secular and “Western-oriented” than say the Saudi regime and its many subsidized Lebanese stooges from Qoreytem, Bayt-al-Din (home to a notorious war criminal who massacred thousands of Christian civilians before stealing their lands) and the Grand Serail.

PM Fuad Saniura and MP Saad Al-Hariri are Wahhabi wolfes in pseudo-modernist clothes…they wear clean-cut ties and suits but, deep inside, they’re just like the Taleban- or even worse for that matter: Hariri and Saniura were both seen several times (on Saudi Arabia’s Channel 1 TV) attending Friday prayer services at Jeddah’s Central Mosque, where the residing Hambali preacher regularly calls for the “extermination of idolatrous Shiite and Christian dogs” or “Tassfiyatt al kilâb al mushrikeen al matâweelah wal-nasârah” in Saudi parlance!

As long as they don’t renounce publicly (preferably on Saudi TV) the intolerance and perversions of Wahhabi theocratic fascism, the leaders of the Future Movement will remain under suspicion in Syria and Lebanon.

And the fact that faux sheikh Saad Al-Hariri was “generously granted” a two-hour audience with Dick Cheney in Riyadh yesterday only adds to that legitimate suspicion: it should be clear by now to the people of Lebanon and the greater Middle-East, that individuals such as Dick Cheney or Paul David Wolfowitz don’t give a damn about say fair municipal elections in Zahleh, free speech in Mossul, or civil rights in Baalbeck!

Take a look at the so-called “Patriot Act” and you’ll see for yourself that these nefarious Trotskyite plotters are actually opposed to democracy and free speech in their own country: how can you trust them to promote liberty beyond America’s shores?

Given the current composition of our Saudi-controlled puppet Parliament whose members were “elected” by way of shameless Gerrymander cooked in Riyadh’s dirty political kitchen not to mention petrodollar-based vote rigging, it is IMPERATIVE TO AVOID BY ALL MEANS having the Al-Sa’aud Saidah stooges designate our country’s next president.

If that takes General Michel Aoun’s allying himself with sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, well so be it!

Dr Victor de la Vega
Thomas More Center for Middle-East Studies
http://www.mideastmemo.blogspot.com/
 
Anonymous:

This post is not about Iran's nuclear programme. Josey mentioned it because Hizbullah is tying the fate of Lebanon to the policies of other countries. Whether or not they have the right to nuclear energy, and regarldess of their true intentions, it should not matter to us as long as we do not become pawns in their headbutting with the west. Say what you want about the civil war, it's beside the point and you'd be living in a timewarp to still be singling out the Maronites for alleged ingratitude.

Hizbullah, for your information, did participate in the civil war. They killed plenty of Shias in their war against Amal, so don't put them on a pedastal. Also, Hizbullah does not recognize the authority of Lebanese institutions, but rather that of the supreme leader of another country, which is Iran. Their continued espousal of violence does not make them a better party either, especially when most of the other militias have laid down their arms.

It's not clear what you want, anonymous. You're throwing accusations against an entire community and defending a country against the insterests of, I presume, your own?

Vic: I saw this same comment on LP's blog. Irrelevant as usual.
 
I REALLY don't like HA, but it is true that HA didn't really fight against the Christians during the war (some skirmishes here and there but that's all). In one of the numerous episodes of the war of the camps in the mid-80's, they evacuated a lot of Christian around Saida that were under 'friendly' fire by both the Amal and the Palestinians.

This doesn't make HA. They don't have a nepotic agenda like Berri or Jumblat, byt they have a political agenda and this agenda is dangerous. Nasrallah's ultimate goal is not to become wealthy and to have a big house in Paris, but to transform Lebanon into a religious state and a satellite controlled by foreigners.
 
"They don't have a nepotic agenda"

Oh no!? They don't?! hehehehe
 
I have read that in recent months the Lebanese Forces have been shamefully re-arming themselves. If they expect the Hizbollah to lay down their arms, they shouldn't be allowed to build stockpiles of their own. As I recall, the Shiite inhabitants in Lebanon are also Lebanese citizens. If the Iranian government gave them massive amounts of aid, the Lebanese people should be gracious enough to accept it.
 
Anonymous: this is NOT a struggle between Maronites and Shias, and certainly not between LF and Hizbullah. This is Hizbullah against Lebanon as an independent and soevereign nation.

I read the reports you mentioned too, and they didn't strike me as credible. The LF and PSP denied them. In the meantime, Hizbullah HAS weapons, and so do the pro-Syrian factions, not to mention some Palestinian groups who have no business carrying them.

I welcome all economic aid from Iran. Nobody will reject it. In fact, Hizbullah should use its connections to import natural gas and oil from Iran at cheap prices. But guess what, the Hizbullah minister is boycotting his job, and Iran would rather send us hate speeches than actual aid.
 
"I have read that in recent months the Lebanese Forces have been shamefully re-arming themselves."

Oh yeah? They have been pretty discreet then, because nobody has seen any LF training camp lately. Unless of course they are in Israel.
 
Iran is an evolving Islamic democracy with many more freedoms than the majority of other Islamic nations. They helped the people of southern Lebanon during their time of need, and without their assistance, the Hizbollah would not have been able to drive out the Israeli occupiers from Lebanon. Relations between Iran and Lebanon will always remain strong, and attempts by Saudi-financed Sunni government to break these ties will surely fail. Iran has been generous enough to share its rich religious and cultural traditions with the Shiite peoples of Lebanon. I don't see why the Maronites continue to oppose an Iranian friendship with Lebanon.
 
Hizbullah and the Shiites of lebanon are not the same thing. the Shiites are of course lebanese but Hizbullah's ideology is not homegrown and is Iranian in origin. I am strongly critical of Hizbullah. It is curious that the anonymous contributor(s) refers to shias, maronites etc... Everyone else here talks about LF, Hizbullah etc.. There is a difference. I can dislike Hizbullah without disliking the Shias of lebanon, likewise with Samir Gaega or Aoun for that matter. No doubt Hizbullah has strong support within the shia community at present, but it is not universal. Hizbullah is a very recent phenomena and hopefully will not stand the test of time
 
I find it to be an absolute and total disgrace that Iranian Jews such as Shaul Mofaz and Dan Halutz can continue to threaten the nation which hosted their forefathers for so many generations. They should hang their heads in shame!
 
you use the word hosted which implies they were never truly considered Iranian, which is maybe why their loyalty is not there.
 
The masses of impoverished Shiites in Lebanon marginalized and excluded from Lebanese politics before the Lebanese Civil War. It was only with the advent of the Iranian Revolution in 1979 did the Shiites of Lebanon's experience a spiritual re-awakening. They have been fighting for their legitimate political and economic rights ever since. Yes, the Hizbollah and Iran are allies, but the Shiites of Lebanon have had relations with the Shiites with Iran and Iraq for centuries. That is not a recent phenomenon.
 
The Jews fled to what was then Persia, and the Persian people gave them refuge and asylum. The host population of Persia completely accepted their Jewish guests, and many of them eventually became part of the Iranian nation.
 
"Iran is an evolving Islamic democracy with many more freedoms than the majority of other Islamic nations. "

Well we all know how high is the standard of the Islamic world concerning political freedom.

You call Iran a democracy? A country where citizens are free to elect one of the candidates chosen by Khamenei?

There's two Iran. The one Hezbollah sells to its credulous supporters and the real one (the website is in french, but there's lovely testimonies of political prisonners who experienced Iran's democratic jails, check the video section).

Please anonymous respect the word 'democracy'. People have died for this. The HA is already desacrating the Lebanese flag, at least don't defile democracy.
 
"to threaten the nation which hosted their forefathers "

Or the nation that expelle their forefathers, it's a matter of perspectives.
 
Iran has regular elections. How many Islamic countries can claim to hold elections? Iran is progressing to be a modern and Islamic nation, and whenever I see Lebanese Phalangists boast of the amount of damage American and/or Israeli airstrikes will do to Iran's nuclear facilities, it infuriates me. Have any Iranians killed any Lebanese? I don't understand the hostility the Phalangist psychos have towards the Iranian people who have helped Lebanon so much
 
Anon,

You've covered enough cliches for one day. What the hell is your point?

-Are you joining the Hezb, if not why not?

-Even if all u said is true, the ass of 4 million Lebanese should be on the line for the sake of Iran? Because Hezbo gets money from Iran, and Shaul Mofaz great grandfather lived there?

You are all over the place, and your posts are going nowhere fast.

If it's not ovious to you yet, you are no match to any of the posters here. Well, maybe just Doc Vic, who matches your relevance.
 
They have not helped lebanon as a whole, I would wager financial aid from Western sources far outstrip anything Iran has given to lebanon so please. In fact I would wager that US aid tops the list, maybe you should be singing the praises of the US for their generous financial assistance. As to these lebanese phalangists, i would advise you to stop hanging out with them. Holding regular elections with a pre-approved slate of candidates, with supreme authority elsewhere is not a democracy. By that standard one can include Jordan and Morocco which I would not. Please, post Iranian revolution, jews were decidedly not welcome in Iran. And once again let's not conflate the iranian regime with the iranian people. There is a large disconnect. or we can always fall back to my favorite trope: It goes something like this, I have nothing against Americans, it is US foreign policy that I hate. When people scream Death to America and burn US flags, they are not wishing ill of the US people only the govt, right. Well I have nothing against Iranians, it is Iranian foreign policy that I dislike.
 
Insulting the posters does not score you any browny points. I have never made any abusive comments towards the posters here, but others here don't have the courtesy to extend respect to others with a different point of view. I am just saying Iran is home to a great civilization and Lebanon can benefit immensely by maintaining strong links with Tehran. I think the Hizbollah will extend strong support to Iran should it come under attack from Zionist aggressors. I think Lebanese Phalangists as a whole should refrain from supporting Israeli air strikes on Iran. If Iran can continue to produce its own energy, I don't see why the Phalangists should have a problem with it. Lebanese patriots shouldn't be supporting attacks against another country that has done nothing to harm them.
 
There were no organized pogroms against Jews after the 1979 Revolution in Iran. I have yet to see evidence any Jews were "expelled" from Iran against their will. The Palestinians on the other hand were expelled against their will by the Zionists.
 
I know I'm late with this ...

... but w.r.t the LF training - as much as I didn't (want to) believe it before I went back to Lebanon, the answer is yes, they are training. They've called back some of the older fighters. This isn't something I read in a newspaper. However, I don't know the scale of the training.

Interestingly, in summer (around election time) two other groups had also begun looking for recruits for training - but I can't answer affirmitively about whether they did go ahead with that.

and hummbumm, yes, I believe US aid to lebanon is near the top (if not at the top) of the list. Even with regards to the landmines in the south.
 
What about the arbitrary arrest of Iranian jews under the 'zionist spy' accusation?

Just google the sentence "Iranian jews".
 
The Phalangists and the LF should learn from the lesson the Druze taught them. They tried to destroy the ancient Druze community in the Chouf region. The awesome fighters of the Druze PSP broke the back of the Phalangists and LF when the latter threatened their homes. I don't think it would be a good idea for the LF to stir up trouble again.
 
Kind of like the Israeli spies working in America, isn't it?
 
Zionist aggressors! Wow, I didn't know people talked like that in real life. Forgive me but was it not the Iranian president that declared Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth? Many minorities in Iran are discriminated against, including Arabs. Lebanon can of course draw on the cultural history of Iran of course just like drawing on France, Britain, China etc... but just because a nation has a long and storied history does not mean that lebanon should have a close political affiliation in the present. Especially when the majority of the populace, basically all non shias and I am sure a subset of shias as well have no relation, linguistic, cultural etc... with Iran. For me personally, nothing against Iranians, but there is absolutely nothing of the current set up in Iran that I would like to see duplicated in Lebanon, be it political set up, social norms, statist interventions in economic life, stiffling of public discourse etc.... It is not a model to emulate in Lebanon or anywhere else.
 
That was one man's opinion, shared by many in the Iranian government. That doesn't mean that they should be bombed because of it.
 
Speaking of the PSP, didn't Walid Joumblatt cause a lot of trouble about the flag in the '80s? I recall something about him backing out of negotiations because there was a Lebanese flag in the room, and fighting with Amal to try to take down the flags in west Beirut.

I ask because I'm not Lebanese so I have no idea if this actually happened. It's hard to find books here (USA) that aren't from the most extreme Zionists or the most extreme Palestinian communists, so I have to guess about which parts are true and which are just made up.
 
Ok Anon,

If you are not Lebanese, shouldn't you be a little more circumspect in arguing with Lebanese over very sensitive and vital INTERNAL DOMESTIC issues.

Only in (the case of) Lebanon.
 
True.

It was during the geneva conference in 84. Jumblat wanted to have a druze flag instead of a Lebanese flag. Jumblat had issue with the Lebanese flags since Aoun kicked his ass in 83. Anyway, his childish behaviour led to the conference failure (and that's what his then syrian masters wanted him to achieve at the time).

This whole thing totally discredited non warlords politicians and led to the infamous tripartite conference in 85.

That's for the sensitive issues.
 
Mr Jumblatt led his Druze militia to victory over the Phalangist and Lebanese Forces fascists in 1983. The victory secured a place in Lebanon for the Druze and shattered the dream of Christian domination of the Chouf region. The Druze are excellent fighters, much more skilled than the mafia-like militias they defeated in the Chouf area in the 1980s.
 
Yet, it was the PSP ethnically cleansed the Christians and it should be labelled fascist as well.
 
There are many sides to the mountain war, but let us remember that christians in the Chouf barring a few incidents were safe from 1975-1982. However after the Israeli invasion, lebanese forces moved into the area and caused trouble igniting the mountain war, and then yes Christians were expelled, but remember it was the goal fo the LF to form a "marounistan" so they incited incidents to lead to retaliations and mass exodus of christians to their area. The army, Led by Aoun intervened on the side of the LF after their defeat.Thus you have the lebanese army, a supposed national symbol intervening on the side of a faction in a civil war. that is why Jumblatt was pissed and that is why the army totally split in two in 1984.
 
Hmm-bum are you kind of affiliated to the Al-Daraza Center for Revisionist Social Studies?
Just wandering…

The historic truth is, of course, quite different from the hash-induced pipe dreams peddled by war criminals such as Waleed Beck and their gullible March 14 friends

The ethnic cleansing of Christians started across the country as early as October 1975 at the hands of pro-Saudi Murabitoon militiamen and other PLO-trained/Saudi-financed Lebanese terrorists and their Druze allies
 
Well said Abdul!
 
too many backward iraqis and iranians polluting that site lately: what happened to the B2B i knew??
 
Abdul, since I lived in a christian village in the aley-chouf area, maybe I know a little bit more than you( bhamdun, souk el gharb, chemlan, rumhallah, deir el qamar etc... were all still vibrant pre 1983). You are probably talking about Damour. That was indeed a horrible war crime. However, let me think, what preceded and led to Damour, aah yes Karantina. That was not done by Saudi trained etc....
Maybe I should light up, please pass me whatever you are having.
All that is in the past. Jumblatt is right on Iran and Syria, and HA is a clear destabilizing factor, more so than any concern re. Saudi interference.
 
"too many backward iraqis and iranians polluting that site lately: what happened to the B2B i knew??"

Not enough "pure" Lebanese? Maybe the Iraqis and Iranians should have 15 years of communal slaughter to prove how progressive they are.
 
The Christians suffered huge losses in the Chouf because of the courage and skill of Druze fighters. It was the Christian militias that incited violence in the Chouf and the Druze rose up to defend themselves. They didn't want to be ruled by a Lebanese mafia force.
 
Is this blog another pro-Katae'b, pro-Phalangist, kiss Jmayel family's ass, pro-Israel blog, or is it a Lebanese one?
 
I'm Iranian, and as long as the Lebanese Constitution under-represents the Shi'a who are the LARGEST sect in Lebanon, we will continue to interfere in your affairs, because when you screw with our Shi'a brothers, it becomes OUR affairs. You can kiss our "mitwali" behinds as far as I am concerned. Taif gave the Shi'a nothing. For years you gave Shi'a nothing but Speaker of the House, and you still give Shi'a nothing. That is where we Iranians come in. And as long as Israel arms Kata'eb (another name for Phalange) and Harras al-Arz, we will continue arming Hezbollah. Kiss our Shi'a "teez", losers.
 
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